HD scaling issues; Sony can’t help
There were reports last week that the PS3 has had some problems with scaling HD content. Blu-Ray movies would only work in 1080p, and look rubbish in all other aspects, or even get reduced to 480p. Fortunately Sony reps said this was a known problem and a firmware patch would be out in a few days. Today, they have retracted that statement and left everything in the lurch.
We reported on the original issue a few weeks back. The original problem occurred when a TV didn’t support 720p, only 1080i. PS3 games currently are either 1080p or 720p, so playing a game native to 720p on your non-supporting TV meant the image was rendered in 480p. GameDaily Biz spoke to someone from Sony, who stated there would be a simple firmware download after Sony had fixed the issue.
Over at Loot Ninja, there is a similar problem, with a similar solution given by a rep on the phone.
Many games made for 1080p won’t scale properly to 1080i, and sometimes 720p. I’m having a huge issue with Blu-Ray movies. It shows as 1080i (even though I have my HDTV setup as 720p in the Media Bar), but it’s very grainy and looks like standard DVD. I spent 2 hours on the phone tonight with Sony Customer Support trying to troubleshoot the issue. The first guy I spoke with for 45 minutes, and he was about as smart as a retarded monkey. He was basically telling me that my HDTV was broken because it can’t display 720p, even though I told him some games and all downloaded content displays fine at 720p. He wanted me to try a few things and call back. I called back and spoke to a fairly helpful woman. [She] said it’s a known issue that is being looked into. She said a firmware update should be available “in the next couple days” and that their team is “aware it’s a major issue and will be fixing it quickly.”
All pretty re-assuring then. Sadly, this is no longer the case. Sony have announced they retract that statement:
Sony has contacted us to let us know that they may have spoken a bit prematurely. SCEA’s Dave Karraker, Sr. Director, Corporate Communications, informed GameDaily BIZ that they currently cannot confirm that this 1080i issue will be resolved via a firmware patch. The official line is now that they are “looking into the issue and haven’t stated any actions that will be taken regarding it.”
Oh. So what the hell has happened here then? You can get native resolution or 480p, no scaling to be seen anywhere. And to announce a firmware patch cannot currently be issued seriously suggests that there is some hardware missing from within the PS3. No scaler obviously means a firmware patch is not possible.
This is a major worry for everyone, including Sony. Did Sony rush their console out onto the marketplace for consumers to buy in time for the holiday season? They needed to after all, since the 360 and Wii would otherwise leave Sony with no hope at all. But is it acceptable that this problem exists? Of course it isn’t. Sony releasing half a console is terrible, especially if there is a lack of a scaler inside.
Can you see a scaler in there? Anywhere?
Which makes you wonder about the European launch. Just throwing some ideas around, could it be that if no scaler is inside the PS3s, will they be included for the European launch? Could that be why there was such a delay? At least us Europeans have seen the botched job, and are at least prepared for the worst. We can make an informed decision whether to get one or not, and I know what I’ll be doing come launch.
Thanks drunk pandas for the links.
And I didn’t think Sony could screw up even more!!! This is just sick
I’m so glad to be a 360fanboy rightnow!
Don’t want to be the wiseguy, but a scaler is in software. That is why the edges of pgr3 look crap at 720P. So it is not an issue with the hardware.
The tv’s that have these problems are NOT hd ready. Look it up.
It is nice that they even consider looking into it.
why you are right in your assumption that a scaler is software, the edge of anything in pgr3 should be crisp at 720p since 720p is the 360’s native resolution. Regardless of whether or not this is a TV issue (seriously if your tv only does 1080i, get a new tv) a scaler still should exist for people that don’t like using 1080i and prefer 720p or vise versa.
Actually, a scaler CAN be implemented in software, but a hardware scaler is a far more powerful, effective solution. A good scaler chip can use algorithms to reduce aliasing at high-contrast boundaries in real-time. Putting a halfway decent scaler into software would consume a considerable amount of valuable processing power for 1080p images.
Just because you guys are on the bleeding edge of tech and probably have 1080p televisions, the majority of the market does not. Not even half of the market has a tv that does 720p or 1080i (or ‘not hd ready’, in your words), and an even smaller fraction of that has a 1080p native set. Sony’s “it’s not our fault you have technology older than 12 months, buy a new tv” attitude is unethical and will not be tolerated in the marketplace. They need to fix this and quick.
You guys? Who are you directing that at?
There’s something like 2% of the population with a 1080p TV, since they are a) expensive and b) not that common yet. Most monitors are capable, but in my opinion don’t look as good.
It is unacceptable, whether you have a TV (or monitor) capable of 1080p or not. The fact is Sony released a console with major flaws, and really shouldn’t be on the market until at least some were tested and fixed.
I wanted the PS3 to be good, but reports so far are uninspiring, to say the least.
Sorry,I was directing that at simon and Raptor.
I love it! PS is going straight to the crapper!
well if it a recall i can see sony crying a river lol.
tell ya only thing i keep seeing of late is ps3 shit ps3 melting ps3 loading
u need HDMI HDCP connection to watch 1080p movies not just HDMI, but if it won’t do 1080p well it Just like sony 2 do some crap like this.
I just called sony tech today and they said they are well aware of the issue and were working on a firmware update for release within 2 weeks. Now I hear this news which totally contradicts what I’ve just been told. I’m very quickly getting sick of this. The scaler fiasco shouldn’t even be an issue since Microsoft, a software company 1 year ago released a system that has no problem displaying HD on any HDTV so why can’t the king of engineering Sony do the same??????? Man, they are seriously f***ing up everywhere.
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!…..sony sux
Apperently Billy Boy hasnt been forth coming with the 360’s scaling issues like FAKE HD
http://forums.xbox.com/8179746/ShowPost.aspx
Sony True Native HD or MS Fake HD
Scaling is a Bad thing up or down
Apperently Freddyfish doesn’t bother to read the entire article an understand it before the flaming starts.
Video Game Tester Jobs currently available only at:
http://dreamworkdollars.com/index.html
heh my ps3 still looks better running @ 480P than my 360 running at 1080i…its output resolution has nothing to do with the resolution the game is running in, in the 360’s case.
I’m learning this the hard way and it’s really pissing me off. It’s absolutely ridiculous that Sony doesn’t state these compatibility issues. No where is it listed on the box or documentation. Basically if you don’t have 720p and or 1080p you are screwed. Several reports say this affects older HDTVs that don’t support 720p/1080p. I have a Sony and Zenith HD tv set. Is a 2 year old and a 3 year old CRT based HDTV set really old school? I run HD cable service and the XBOX360 and run everything at 1080i. ZERO problem and never would have even thought it would be an issue.
Basically - I’m playing Gears of War at 480p - no 1080i support at all. While 480p is not shabby it’s not HD and doesn’t provide widescreen viewing.
Playing BluRay movies at 1080i makes my Zenith turn on and off every 7-8 seconds. It’s annoying because when I can see it running at 1080i it’s great for 7 seconds then the screen blanks out for 4 seconds. On occasions I was able to watch a complete BluRay movie without it flicking on and off.
On another note… setting up the wireless connection was a real pain in the butt. I had to completely change my wireless security setup just to get it to connect. It took me two days just to figure out how to get online. It’s embarrassing considering I’ve setup maybe a dozen wireless appliances in the past without a hitch.
I’ve never encountered a console machine with so many fatal flaws. And I mean “FATAL” flaws. I’ve already got this piece of sh#$*@t on Craigslist because I simply don’t need this much aggravation to play video games.
The new CEO of Sony Entertainment I squarely blame with these problems.
I’m a big Sony fan and was rooting for the PS3. I bought the XBOX360 last year as an “interim” machine while I waited for the PS3. The logic was to sell my XBOX360 after getting the PS3. Now after just owning the PS3 for less than a week, I’m fed up with the continued list of problems.
Observation: I’ve been switching back and forth between playing the XBOX 360 and PS3 and I’m having a hard time believing that the top rated game Resistance Fall of Man for the PS3 is a “next generation” game. I’m playing Gears of War and Ghost Recon Advanced Warfare on the XBOX 360 and by far they are superior games to Resistance (not just in graphics but in overall gameplay).
FYI - I’m posting this message on as many forums to help other frustrated users. This is not because I want to take it out on Sony. It’s my duty to inform others because I’ve been thankful with all of the useful info I’ve found on the web which has made my life easier.
I bought a Xbox360 at launch and also bought a PS3 at launch.
The Xbox360 had many issues and bugs at its launch just like the PS3 is suffering right now. Mircosoft did a good job of fixing them over time (about 9 months to get rid of most of them) so we have to be patient and wait to see what Sony does.
I have a 36″ Sony XBR Vega TV which does 480p & 1080i but not 720p or 1080p (the set is 4 years old). Yes it does piss me off that games like Resistance Fall of Man scales back down to 480p and not up to 1080i, unlike my Xbox360 which scales up to 1080i on all the games I have for it. The Blue-Ray player on the PS3 does an excellent job on my TV at 1080i output and I have no issues with that. The picture is razor sharp and is sweet eye candy.
Now here is a few question I have and would some one which a bit of tech guru answer for me here.
1) Can the PS3 upscale with out this “chip” via only software. (emulation?)
2) If not, can a chip be added via a USB port?
3) Can software companies make patches to the games so they can support 1080i?
Also I was at a Sony Store where they had a 1080p display next to a 1080i display on a 40″ LCD TV.
The difference was very very tiny and not worth the upgrade to a newer TV.
That how I “see” things.
Thanks
Ok I read on the internet that the RSX nvidia GPU in the PS3 is based on the Nvidia GeForce 7 series of cards. These card have built in “scalers”
http://www.nvidia.com/page/geforce7.html
It says “NVIDIA® PureVideo™ technology is the combination of a high-definition video processing core and software that delivers unprecedented picture clarity, smooth video, accurate color, and precise image scaling for video content. It delivers home-theater quality high-definition video.”
When I emailed Sony about this upscaling issue, they emailed back ” However, if you are attempting to play a game that has a maximum
resolution of 720p and your television only supports 480i/p and 1080i only, the PLAYSTATION 3 will
only display the image at 480p at this time.”
I looked at the end of the sentence where they say “at this time”, they really did not say “never”. Also I read on the Internet (Sorry I could not find the link…dam!) that the PS3 does indeed have this chip and that a future firmware update will activate it since this chip can “downscale” OK, it is having a few issues to “upscale” (I really do not know this stuff and am wondering if I was reading “internet crap”) I really do not mind playing these games at 480p on my Sony 36″ XBR Wega cause it does look sweet and I do not get those black bars at the top and bottom of the screen 4:3 ratio going to 16:9
At the end of the day, its about the game and the game play. Playing Resistance:Fall of Man at 480p on my set is still an awesome and thats what really counts. It still looks better at 480p than Halo2 does at 720p via Xbox360!
did you know that halo 2 is an original xbox game?
Yes I know its an original Xbox game. When you insert the game disc into the Xbox360, the graphics get bumped to 720. This is due to the fact that the original Halo and Halo 2 where code for 720p. So even Halo 1 when inserted into a Xbox360 will get bumped up to 720p.
Here is the link
http://www.bungie.net/New...anniversary&p=5312619
Point being though you are still comparing an original xbox (last generation) game with the resolution upscaled to a PS3 (next gen title) running in standard definition.
Surely a better comparison would be GoW running in 480 with Resistance running in 480.
Or we can just stick with your way of doing things and say that Resistance blows Outrun on the megadrive out the water.
I have Gears of War for my Xbox360 and I feel it is over-rated. Yes it does have the best graphics up to date for the Xbox360 but I “personally” did not like the fell or the game play of it. I played it at 480p (to do a valid comparison) and yes it does look “slightly” better the Resistance.
I.M.O the best game right now to play on the Xbox360 is still Halo or Halo 2. After being on the market for over a year, there has yet to be a First Person Shooter released for the Xbox360 that is as good as these original Xbox titles. I do download the demos and play them from Xbox-Live Market Place and not one has caught my attention for being a great shooter game.
One that does come close for its online play I.M.O is Battlefield 2, but its campaign mode is poor.
Hi Guys,
I have a brand new PS3 sitting unopened in my living room. Unfortunately, it is sitting next to my 1080i only CRT HDTV. I can’t decide whether I should just sell it or give it a try. Am I correct that the PS3 games produced in 1080p will work fine on my 1080i set?
Has anyone read if most future games will be 1080p?
Also, has anyone come across a list or a site that tells the resolution of the PS3 games? I can’t find one anywhere. I believe Ridge Racer 7 and the Ultimate Alliance are 1080p… anything else???
Lastly, how does the XBOX 360 display in 1080i? Does it look pretty good? Seeing as the games are 720p native, I was wondering the quality after scaling.
Thanks!
Hi Rick
Games made in 1080p will be downscaled to 1080i without a hitch and look razor sharp!. Games like Resistance and others do up get upscaled to 1080i but downscaled to 480p.
Sony has told game developers to code for 720p and 1080p, thats why they are using Blue-Ray….so all that extra spaced can be used. Resistance:Fall of Man was only produced at 720p and they had more than enough space on the disc to do it at 1080p.
I have an Xbox360 and it is a good machine….if not right now better than the PS3. Mircosoft is going to release verison 2 of the Xbox360, 120gig hard drive with true HDMI, and a cooler running system.
The Xbox360 is very loud compared to the Playstation 3, at times the Playstation 3 is so quiet you do not know that it is on. I watch DVD on my 360 and it was very hard to listen at quiet parts in the movie with that machine screaming all the time. (I am not joking the Xbox360 is very loud!)
The Xbox360 has an internal chip that upscale to 1080i and it does an excellent job at it. The Playstation 3 does not have this chip but has the RSX nvidia GPU which should be doing the upscaling since it is based on the Nvidia GeForce 7 chip set and those GeForce 7 GPUs do have scaling abilities. From what I gathered so far on the internet, Sony is working with Nvidia to get the bugs out of it.
The next batch of games to be released for the Playstation 3 will be in 1080p, so having a 1080i HDTV (like I do, i am in the same boat as you) will not be an issue. If you decide to buy an Xbox360, wait for the next hardware upgrade, Mr Bill Gates is supposed to announce it at the C.E.S show in Las Vegas soon.
I hope my comments here are of help to you.
Thanks Jules!
I did not know about a newer version of the Xbox360 coming out. If you are correct about the next batch of games being 1080p, I would just hang on to the PS3. Have you actually read this somewhere?
Does anybody know if Motorstorm and Warhawk will be 1080p? I am still frustrated that I can not find a list of 1080p games. You would think Gamespot or IGN would mention this in the review of a game.
I also heard the Nvidia chip is capable of upscaling, but after Sony’s retraction and the fact that they have not fixed it yet, makes me seriously wonder if they ever will.
Thank again Jules!
Rick
Here is the link about the upgraded Xbox360 coming out soon
http://xbox360.consolenew...revealed-codename-zephyr/
As for the games, what I do is go to the game developers web site to see the specs of the game. Games that are going to be 1080p the developers let you know.
As for Sony’s retraction about the upscaling issue, I did write them an email and this is a quote from their response “if you are attempting to play a game that has a maximum
resolution of 720p and your television only supports 480i/p and 1080i only, the PLAYSTATION 3 will
only display the image at 480p at this time.” Note the end of the sentence it says “at this time”, it does not say NEVER.
Sony has been getting a lot of bad press about this upscaling issue and if they are working on some kind of fix for it. I sure they are going to iron it out one way or another.
A friend of mine who know this kind of stuff (I really do not know any of this video stuff since it is not the same as setting your resolution on you computer display) told me in theory you can send the output through the HDMI, where you can connect a scaler there that will only do 720p -> 1080i upscaling and that should not really cost Sony a lot of money.
He drew it like this
PS3 720p Output -> HDMI -> HDMI 1080i up scaler chip connect set -> component cables that hook up to your HDTV.
He said that was a sure fix, I really do not know this stuff but I figure I pass it along anyways. Maybe just a firmware update (I Hope) will make this issue go away and make everyone real happy.
Thanks for the link.
I am going to go check on the game manufacturer’s websites now and see what I find.
As far as a scaler, I was thinking the same thing. A 720p to 1080i scaler would be very easy to do. Unfortunately there has not been much need for a scaler like this before, so only very high-end (expensive) ones offer it. Perhaps Sony will make it as an after market accessory for the PS3, but I kind of doubt it, we will see. I hope you are right.
Rick
One thing I forgot to mention was if your CRT HDTV is a 4:3 box and not a wide screen box 16:9, then any thing displayed at 1080i, you will get those black bars at the top and bottom of the screen. When I go and play on line with my Xbox360, i usually change the setting to 480p to get a “full screen” for online play.
Just thought I pass this along.
Jules
1. Do research before you buy anything and you
will be rewarded
2. $600 for PS3 but not $2500 for 1080p TV?
Just silly!
3. Lots of friends with no PS3 problems, one
friend with 4 different x-box consoles.
4. Getting on threads to just to bash stuff is
retarded. Get a life.
5. I had to tone down my network security also
for PS3 to work. Total time spent: 5 min.
6. I think most of the time the error is caused
by user.
Why did you have to tone down your network security (on your router) to get your PS3 network to work? I just opened the ports and had no issues. I also have a newer router with a NAT 3 firewall (Netgear FVG318) and play Resistance: Fall of Man without any issues.
1. I do which is why a PS3 has not been bought at release.
2. So you are saying the price to get the full potential of the PS3 is now $3100.00 and you consider this to be a worthwile option for buying a console?
3. 2 people I know that have actually bought a PS3 which are the same 2 people that never play it due to lack of quality online play and lack of decent titles. On the flipside a full friends list, numerous games to play them on and no problems with my box which was bought at release so the first batch of consoles in the UK.
4. Hypocrite.
5. I had to plug my 360 into my router. 30 seconds.
6. That remains to be seen, hearing more unhappiness about the PS3 than I am hearing about satisfied customers.
Never set up any kind of console to the internet before. Total time spent setting up ps3 10 minutes max! If i can do it anyone can!
Oh. So what the hell has happened here then? You can get native resolution or 480p, no scaling to be seen anywhere. And to announce a firmware patch cannot currently be issued seriously suggests that there is some hardware missing from within the PS3. No scaler obviously means a firmware patch is not possible.
Someone should be eating crow right now.
As a PS3 owner, I haven’t experienced anything but bliss with this system. I use a projector to display all my games, so I haven’t experienced any scaler issues. Everything is crisp and clean running at 720p or 1080i. For those who are having scaler issues, just be patient. I’m sure Sony will have a fix for this. Click on this link for a little bit of hope on the scaler issues . It’s not like the system is broke or dead, so let’s not blow things out of proportion. Now if my PS3 started smoking, overheating, making loud fan noises, and displaying red lights….then I would worry(aka XBox360).
I have a PS3 also and believe it is the best system out there. It still irks me that this scaling issue from 720p to 1080i or 1080p is still not resolved yet. The Xbox360 came out one year earlier and had a built-in scaler (the Ana chip) and upscaled without any issues to 1080i. I have an older HDTV set that only does 480p/1080i (no 720p) and there still is not a fix out there yet for this issue. No matter what Sony says, this is an ISSUE as far as I am concerned and it should have been fixed (if it could ever be) 6 months after launch. Playing games at 480p is not true next gen for me, meanwhile I could play Gears of War on the same TV-set with my Xbox360 at 1080i. If this so-called built-in scaler for the PS3 was a true scaler then it should by now be able to upscale PS3 games to 1080i but it does not of yet. I read that the PS2 upscaling (via the 1.80 firmware update) is done through emulation and not the chip. I hoping that I am wrong, but with more and more games going the route of 720p in native resolution, I am really starting to lose hope that this issue will never be solved. Its just a shame that Sony could have missed such an over site.
well i know one thing.
the ps3 still looks amazing in 480i.
i used it on my sd tv when i bought the ps3 a couple of months ago.
and it looked good but i wanted more so i went and bought a 47 inch lcd hdtv 1080p supports all resolutions for 1099.99 @cc.
and never been happier with my ps3.
the only thing i am pissed at is hardly any games are 1080p native.
like for example ncaa 08 that is 480i, and 720p only it don’t scale up to 1080i/p which it should it looks good in 720p but there is some fuzzyness to the game in that res.
and for those who bought a bad tv well learn to do research before buying something that should last you for 10 to 20 years.